4338.215 · August 3, 2018 AD
File Reference: INT-20180803-1435-LAHEY
TASMANIA POLICE
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION BRANCH
FORMAL INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
OPERATION: Greyson Search / Jenkins Missing Person Investigation
INTERVIEW DATE: 3 August 2018
INTERVIEW TIME: 14:35 - 16:47
LOCATION: CIB Interview Room 2, Hobart Police Headquarters
CASE REFERENCE: MP-2018-0847 / INV-2018-0623
INTERVIEWING OFFICER: Detective Sergeant Alexander Stout (Badge #2847)
SUBJECT: Detective Constable Sarah Jane Lahey (Badge #3192)
ALSO PRESENT: Constable Emily Rogers (observing, Badge #4103)
RECORDING: Audio/Video (File Reference: INT-20180803-1435-LAHEY)
DS STOUT: This interview is being conducted on Friday, the third of August, 2018, commencing at 14:35 hours. Present are Detective Sergeant Alexander Stout, Constable Emily Rogers, and Detective Constable Sarah Lahey. Sarah, you've been advised that this interview is being recorded, yes?
DC LAHEY: Yes.
DS STOUT: And you understand that whilst this is a formal interview regarding the disappearance of Detective Senior Constable Karl Jenkins and related matters, you're here voluntarily and can request a break or terminate the interview at any time?
DC LAHEY: I understand. I want to help in any way I can.
DS STOUT: Thank you. I know this is difficult. Before we begin, how are you holding up?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 3 seconds] I'm... managing. I didn't sleep much last night. Keep replaying everything, wondering if I could have done something differently.
DS STOUT: That's a completely natural response. We're going to work through this methodically, and if you need a break at any point, just say so. Understood?
DC LAHEY: Yes, thank you.
DS STOUT: Let's start with the broader context. Can you describe your working relationship with
Detective Senior Constable Jenkins?
DC LAHEY: Karl and I were partnered in October 2016. He was my training officer initially, but we developed a good working partnership. He's experienced, methodical. I learned a lot from him.
DS STOUT: Would you characterise your relationship as purely professional?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 2 seconds] Primarily, yes. We'd occasionally have a drink after work, like most partners do. We spent a lot of time together on cases.
DS STOUT: I'm asking because several colleagues have mentioned you two seemed particularly close. Is there anything about your relationship that might be relevant to understanding recent events?
DC LAHEY: We trusted each other. That's essential when you're working major crimes. You need to know your partner has your back. [pause] Karl's been under a lot of stress lately. This case... it got to him more than usual.
DS STOUT: We'll come back to that. Let's establish the timeline. Walk me through the Greyson investigation from the beginning. How did it start?
DC LAHEY: Louise Jeffries came to the station on... [pause, checking notes] July 28th. Her younger brother, Jamie Greyson, had been missing for several days at that point. She'd last had contact with him on the 24th, and after repeated attempts to reach him with no response, she became concerned. It wasn't like Jamie to go silent.
DS STOUT: And what was your initial assessment?
DC LAHEY: At that stage, it seemed like a standard missing person case. Adult male, no immediate signs of foul play. We took the report, got the details. Louise mentioned that Jamie had been living with his partner, Luke Smith. That was our starting point.
DS STOUT: When did it escalate from a routine missing person?
DC LAHEY: It had already escalated by the time Louise came in. [pause] She'd sent her son, Kain—he was in his early twenties—to check on Jamie at Luke Smith's house on the 26th. Kain never came back. So when Louise reported it on the 28th, we had two missing persons immediately: both her brother and her son. That's when it became clear something was seriously wrong.
DS STOUT: Two family members missing, both connected to Luke Smith's property. That must have raised immediate red flags.
DC LAHEY: Absolutely. Louise was... she was distraught. First her brother disappears, then she sends her son to check and he vanishes too. We treated it as high priority from the start.
DS STOUT: What were your immediate actions?
DC LAHEY: [pause] We divided responsibilities. I began checking with Hobart and Launceston airports for any flight records—wanted to see if either Kain or Luke had left the state. I also had Ellen Lowe put in requests for passenger manifests from Spirit of Tasmania, in case they'd taken the ferry to Melbourne.
DS STOUT: And Senior Detective Constable Jenkins?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 4 seconds] Karl went to check Luke's property. The house on Wallcrest Road. See if anyone was home, check for any obvious signs of disturbance.
DS STOUT: Did he find anything?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 5 seconds] No one was there. The house appeared lived-in but empty. No signs of forced entry or struggle from what Karl could observe from outside.
DS STOUT: From outside?
DC LAHEY: [pause] Yes. He couldn't gain access without a warrant. Just checked windows, doors, looked for anything visible that might indicate a problem.
DS STOUT: And there was nothing?
DC LAHEY: Nothing obvious. Which made it more frustrating. Two people connected to that address were missing, but we couldn't justify forcing entry.
DS STOUT: Tell me about Luke Smith. What did you learn about him?
DC LAHEY: [shifting in seat] Luke Smith is... was... difficult to pin down. We tried to interview him multiple times, but he was never available. Wouldn't return calls. Neighbours said they'd seen him come and go at odd hours, but we could never seem to catch him at home. It felt deliberate, like he was avoiding us.
DS STOUT: Did you obtain a warrant to search his property?
DC LAHEY: We applied for one on the 31st, but there wasn't sufficient evidence of a crime at that point. Just two missing persons with a tenuous connection to Smith. Sergeant Claiborne rejected it, said we needed more before forcing entry to his property.
DS STOUT: That must have been frustrating.
DC LAHEY: [bitter laugh] Incredibly. We knew he was key to this, but our hands were tied. Karl especially... he took it hard. Started working longer hours, becoming more obsessed with finding a way to speak to Smith.
DS STOUT: Obsessed is a strong word.
DC LAHEY: [pause, 4 seconds] Karl is thorough. Dedicated. But yes, this case got under his skin in a way I hadn't seen before. He'd stay up late reviewing files, looking for connections we might have missed. He was convinced Smith knew what happened to both men.
DS STOUT: Did Detective Senior Constable Jenkins ever express intentions to confront Smith outside of official channels?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 5 seconds] No. Karl follows procedure. [pause] Followed. Follows procedure.
DS STOUT: You're aware we'll be reviewing all case files and communications?
DC LAHEY: Of course. I have nothing to hide.
DS STOUT: Let's talk about Gladys Cramer. How did she first enter the investigation?
DC LAHEY: [visible tension in shoulders, pause, 4 seconds] We encountered her on the 29th of July. Routine traffic stop—she was driving erratically on Main Road, Glenorchy.
DS STOUT: Erratically how?
DC LAHEY: [pause] Weaving slightly, inconsistent speed. Standard indicators for potential impairment. We conducted a breath test.
DS STOUT: And?
DC LAHEY: Zero reading. She was sober. [pause] She had wine bottles on the passenger seat—recently purchased—but she hadn't been drinking.
DS STOUT: What happened next?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 5 seconds] We ran her license, ran the vehicle registration. The car belonged to Jamie Greyson.
DS STOUT: The missing person.
DC LAHEY: Yes. [pause] Gladys claimed Jamie had lent her the car. Said she was actually on her way to his house—Luke Smith's property—because Jamie was there cooking dinner and had invited her over.
DS STOUT: How did you respond to that?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 4 seconds] We asked if we could follow her there. She agreed. Said Jamie would be happy to speak with us, that there was some misunderstanding about him being missing.
DS STOUT: And when you arrived at the property?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 6 seconds, uncomfortable] No one appeared to be home. No lights on, no response when we knocked. Gladys seemed... surprised. Said Jamie must have stepped out.
DS STOUT: Did you enter the property?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 7 seconds, very careful] Gladys had a key. She offered to let us in to verify Jamie wasn't there. We accepted.
DS STOUT: And what did you find inside?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 5 seconds] Nothing. The house was empty. No signs of recent occupation in the kitchen, no dinner being prepared. No indication anyone had been there recently.
DS STOUT: How did Gladys explain that?
DC LAHEY: [pause, frustrated] She didn't, really. Said maybe she'd got the day wrong, or the time wrong. Said Jamie and Luke were both fine, that we were worrying over nothing. Very... vague. Unhelpful.
DS STOUT: Did you detain her at that point?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 4 seconds] On what grounds? She'd cooperated with the traffic stop, cooperated with letting us into the property. Being wrong about dinner plans isn't a crime. We took her details, made it clear we'd need to speak with her again, and let her go.
DS STOUT: You encountered her again after that?
DC LAHEY: [pause, tense] Yes. The next day—the 30th—Karl and I were responding to a disturbance call at a property in Collinsvale. The Owens' residence.
DS STOUT: What was the nature of that disturbance?
DC LAHEY: [pause] Undetermined at that stage. We were on scene investigating when a priority call came through dispatch—two vehicles driving at high speed near Collinsvale. We were the closest unit.
DS STOUT: You left the crime scene to pursue?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 4 seconds] I notified dispatch that forensics was en route to the Owens' property. The high-speed pursuit was urgent, and we were in position to respond. It was the right call operationally.
DS STOUT: Tell me about the pursuit.
DC LAHEY: We were at the junction where the Owens' driveway meets the main road when the two vehicles passed us at high speed. They were heading toward Collinsvale. We activated lights and sirens and gave chase.
DS STOUT: Weather conditions?
DC LAHEY: Poor. Heavy rain, reduced visibility. The vehicles were spraying water, making it difficult to maintain visual contact or read number plates initially.
DS STOUT: You managed to identify one of the vehicles?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 5 seconds] Yes. I got close enough to read a plate. Ran it through the system whilst Karl was driving.
DS STOUT: And?
DC LAHEY: [pause, uncomfortable] It came back registered to Gladys Cramer.
DS STOUT: Not Jamie Greyson's vehicle this time?
DC LAHEY: No. Her own car.
DS STOUT: What happened next?
DC LAHEY: [pause] The vehicles wound through Collinsvale Road, onto Collins Cap Road, then suddenly turned onto Springdale Road. Karl made a tactical decision—we could cut them off by doubling back to intercept at the intersection. The chopper was tracking them from above.
DS STOUT: Did that work?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 6 seconds] No. They never appeared at the intersection. Dispatch reported they'd turned down Myrtle Forest Road. The helicopter lost visual.
DS STOUT: Lost visual? In the middle of a pursuit?
DC LAHEY: [pause] The weather was terrible. Low cloud cover, heavy rain. The chopper couldn't maintain line of sight through the forest canopy.
DS STOUT: You proceeded to Myrtle Forest?
DC LAHEY: Yes. We drove to the end of Myrtle Forest Road, to the forest entrance. That's where we found one of the vehicles.
DS STOUT: Describe what you found.
DC LAHEY: [pause, 4 seconds] Gladys's car was abandoned behind the public toilet block. Driver's door hanging open. No one inside. No sign of the second vehicle at all.
DS STOUT: Just... abandoned?
DC LAHEY: Yes. The tyre tracks showed it had driven around behind the toilet block and stopped. Fresh footprints led toward the forest walking trail.
DS STOUT: Did you pursue on foot?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 5 seconds, careful] We... we secured the vehicle first. Called it in. Karl checked the toilet block—it was empty. We found evidence suggesting someone had fled into the forest.
DS STOUT: What evidence?
DC LAHEY: A bracelet. Near the entrance to the walking trail. It had initials engraved inside—G.C.
DS STOUT: Gladys Cramer.
DC LAHEY: [pause] Presumably. We couldn't confirm it was hers without questioning her directly.
DS STOUT: Did you pursue into the forest?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 7 seconds, uncomfortable] Briefly. I... I followed the trail for a short distance. Looking for any sign of which direction she'd gone.
DS STOUT: And Detective Senior Constable Jenkins?
DC LAHEY: [pause] He followed me. Told me it was pointless, that we were just two officers in a massive forest area, in terrible weather. He was right. We returned to wait for backup.
DS STOUT: You didn't locate Gladys Cramer that day?
DC LAHEY: No. Other units conducted a thorough search of the area. Found nothing. No sign of her or the second vehicle.
DS STOUT: The second vehicle was never located?
DC LAHEY: Not to my knowledge. It's still an open investigation. I don't know what happened to it.
DS STOUT: And you're certain one of the drivers was Gladys Cramer?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 6 seconds] I'm certain one of the vehicles was registered to her. Whether she was actually driving it... I never saw the driver clearly enough to identify them. The pursuit happened too fast, visibility was too poor.
DS STOUT: But the bracelet suggested she was present.
DC LAHEY: Yes. The bracelet was there. Whether it was dropped during the pursuit or had been there longer... [trails off]
DS STOUT: You sound uncertain.
DC LAHEY: [pause, defensive] I'm being honest about what we could and couldn't confirm. The bracelet had her initials. The car was registered to her. Those are facts. Whether she was actually the person driving, whether she was even present—I can't definitively say. I never saw her.
DS STOUT: [pause, making notes] This pursuit incident remains under separate investigation?
DC LAHEY: Yes. Different case number. Major Crimes is handling it.
DS STOUT: When was your next contact with Gladys Cramer?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 4 seconds] August 1st. The day before Karl disappeared. There was a reported break-in at Luke Smith's property. Sergeant Claiborne sent me to respond.
DS STOUT: And Gladys was there?
DC LAHEY: Yes. Inside the property. She claimed she'd let herself in with her key to check on things, but a neighbour had seen movement and called it in as suspicious.
DS STOUT: You arrested her?
DC LAHEY: [pause] Yes. For unlawful entry. She had a key but couldn't prove she had current permission to be there, and with both Jamie and Luke missing, we couldn't verify her authorisation.
DS STOUT: What happened after the arrest?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 5 seconds, uncomfortable] After arriving at the station, Sergeant Claiborne... he... he took over the interview. Sent me to process paperwork whilst he spoke with her directly.
DS STOUT: You weren't present for the interview?
DC LAHEY: No. Claiborne conducted it himself.
DS STOUT: Did he explain why he excluded you?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 6 seconds] He said something about keeping the interview clean, avoiding any perception of bias given our previous encounters with her. I didn't question it.
DS STOUT: And the outcome?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 4 seconds] She was released. I don't know the details of what was discussed or why Claiborne decided to release her. I wasn't briefed on the content of the interview.
DS STOUT: You haven't had contact with Gladys Cramer since August 1st?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 7 seconds] No. None at all.
DS STOUT: [pause, observing her] You seem uncomfortable discussing Gladys Cramer.
DC LAHEY: [pause, 5 seconds] She's... she's frustrating. Every interaction with her felt like we were being manipulated. Like she knew more than us but enjoyed watching us chase shadows. [pause] And now Karl's missing and she's vanished again. If she has information about where he is, she's not sharing it.
DS STOUT: Do you believe Gladys Cramer is involved in Detective Senior Constable Jenkins' disappearance?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 8 seconds] I don't know. She's connected to everything—Jamie, Luke, the investigation. But I can't prove she's done anything criminal beyond the unlawful entry, and even that was dismissed. She's just... there. Always at the edges.
DS STOUT: [making notes] We'll be bringing her in for formal questioning. If we can locate her.
DC LAHEY: [pause] Good luck with that. She's very good at not being found.
DS STOUT: [pause, studying her] Is there anything else about Gladys Cramer you think I should know?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 9 seconds, very careful] No. I've told you everything about my interactions with her.
DS STOUT: [noting her response] Alright. Let's move on.
DS STOUT: Let's move to the events of August 2nd. You and Detective Senior Constable Jenkins responded to a disturbance at Jeffries Manor. Walk me through how that came about.
DC LAHEY: We received the call through dispatch at approximately... [checking notes] 14:47 hours. Louise Jeffries had reported that Luke Smith was on her property, specifically in an outbuilding. Given our ongoing investigation and Smith's pattern of avoidance, we responded immediately with lights and sirens.
DS STOUT: What was your state of mind when you received that call?
DC LAHEY: [pause] Focused. Urgent. We'd been chasing Smith for days. This was potentially our first real opportunity to speak with him, to get answers about Jamie and Kain. Karl and I both recognised this might be the break in the case we'd been waiting for.
DS STOUT: Describe your arrival at Jeffries Manor.
DC LAHEY: We arrived at approximately 16:03. Louise Jeffries was outside, near a shed at the side of the property. She was... [pause] highly distressed. Crying, shaking. She was holding a large kitchen knife.
DS STOUT: How did you interpret that?
DC LAHEY: At first, I thought she might have been in immediate danger, that Smith had threatened her. But as we approached, it became clear she'd been using the knife to keep the shed door closed, wedging it somehow. She said Smith was trapped inside.
DS STOUT: What happened next?
DC LAHEY: Karl told me to secure Louise and take her inside the house whilst he checked the shed. It was the logical division of labour—make sure the civilian was safe whilst the more experienced officer handled the potential threat.
DS STOUT: Did you question that decision?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 4 seconds] No. It made sense at the time. Karl had more experience in potentially confrontational situations. My job was to ensure Louise's safety and secure the house.
DS STOUT: Walk me through what happened when you took Louise inside.
DC LAHEY: She was barely coherent. Kept saying Luke had come to see Brianne—that's Kain's fiancée—and that now Brianne was missing too. She was terrified, convinced Smith had done something to her. I got her into the living room, told her to close all the blinds and lock the doors whilst I checked upstairs.
DS STOUT: Why did you need to check upstairs?
DC LAHEY: Louise mentioned her mother-in-law, Thelma, was upstairs in her bedroom. Given the situation, I needed to make sure she was secure and hadn't been harmed. She's elderly, bedridden. Vulnerable.
DS STOUT: How long were you upstairs?
DC LAHEY: [pause] Maybe three, four minutes? I checked several rooms before finding Thelma. She was... confused. Disoriented. I think she has dementia. She kept calling me Jane.
DS STOUT: Jane?
DC LAHEY: My grandmother's name. Jane Lahey. She currently residing at Vaucluse. [pause, emotional] I think Thelma knew her... knows her. Maybe they were friends.... are friends. It was... unsettling. But I didn't have time to process it. That's when I heard the motorbike.
DS STOUT: Describe exactly what you heard.
DC LAHEY: [pause, gathering thoughts] A motorbike engine. Very brief. Three, maybe four seconds at most. It sounded close, like it was right outside. Then nothing. Complete silence.
DS STOUT: Not the sound of an engine fading into the distance?
DC LAHEY: No. That's what was so strange about it. It was there, and then it wasn't. Like someone had turned it on and then immediately off. Or like it just... stopped existing.
DS STOUT: What did you do?
DC LAHEY: I ran. Left Thelma's room, told her to stay inside and lock the door, and sprinted downstairs. I needed to get to Karl. Something felt wrong. The way that engine just... cut off. It wasn't natural.
DS STOUT: When you reached the shed, what did you find?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 5 seconds, visible emotion] Nothing. The shed was empty. Karl was gone. Luke was gone. There was no motorbike. It was like they'd vanished.
DS STOUT: Completely empty?
DC LAHEY: Almost. There were tools on the walls, normal shed things. But the floor was... it was too clean. Like it had been swept recently. And there was this smell.
DS STOUT: What kind of smell?
DC LAHEY: [pause] I don't know how to describe it. Like... ozone? Like after lightning strikes? But also something else. Something I couldn't identify. It made my head hurt.
DS STOUT: Did you search the immediate area?
DC LAHEY: Yes. I checked around the shed, looked for footprints, tyre marks, anything. I called Karl's mobile repeatedly—went straight to voicemail every time. I was... [pause, emotional] I was panicking. Backup were already en route, by order of despatch.
DS STOUT: Sergeant Claiborne arrived shortly after?
DC LAHEY: Yes. Along with several other units. They conducted a thorough search of the manor and surrounding area. Found nothing. The forensics team discovered motorbike tracks leading from the shed, but they just... stopped. In the middle of open ground. Just ended.
DS STOUT: How do you explain that?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 8 seconds] I can't. I've been trying to make sense of it since it happened. It doesn't follow any logic. Vehicles don't just disappear. People don't just vanish. But that's what happened. Karl and Luke Smith were there one moment, and gone the next.
DS STOUT: You mentioned you were in an overwhelmed state when Sergeant Claiborne arrived.
DC LAHEY: [pause] Yes. I'd collapsed. The stress, the confusion, not knowing where Karl was... it overwhelmed me. I'm not proud of that, but it's the truth.
DS STOUT: Sergeant Claiborne ordered you to go home.
DC LAHEY: He did. He said I was exhausted, that I needed rest. That he'd handle the scene.
DS STOUT: Did you go home?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 7 seconds] No. Not immediately.
DS STOUT: Where did you go?
DC LAHEY: [shifting in seat] I drove toward Luke Smith's house. I thought... I thought maybe Karl had somehow got there. That maybe Smith had taken him there. I wasn't thinking clearly. I just needed to find him.
DS STOUT: You disobeyed a direct order from a superior officer?
DC LAHEY: [pause] Yes. I know I shouldn't have. I wasn't in the right frame of mind. I just... I couldn't go home not knowing where Karl was.
DS STOUT: What happened when you reached Smith's property?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 6 seconds] There were already police there. Multiple units. Someone had called in a disturbance. I parked across the road and just... sat there. Trying to decide what to do.
DS STOUT: You didn't announce your presence to the officers on scene?
DC LAHEY: No. I knew I shouldn't be there. I was just... I was frozen. Couldn't make myself leave, couldn't make myself approach.
DS STOUT: How long were you there?
DC LAHEY: [pause] Maybe fifteen, twenty minutes? Then I heard a gunshot from inside the house.
DS STOUT: What did you do?
DC LAHEY: I ran to the house. I thought... God, I thought it might be Karl. That maybe he was inside, that he'd been hurt. I pushed past the officers at the door and went inside.
DS STOUT: Even though you knew you were compromising an active scene?
DC LAHEY: [pause, emotional] I wasn't thinking about protocol. I was thinking about my partner potentially bleeding out in there. Yes, I compromised the scene. I'm aware that was wrong.
DS STOUT: What did you find inside?
DC LAHEY: A woman. Middle-aged, dead. Gunshot wound. I didn't recognise her. Officers were already trying to render aid, but she was gone. I asked about Karl—no one had seen him.
DS STOUT: The deceased has been identified as Kate Gibbons. Does that name mean anything to you?
DC LAHEY: [pause, thinking] No. I've never heard that name before. Who was she?
DS STOUT: We're still establishing that. What did you do after discovering it wasn't Detective Senior Constable Jenkins who'd been shot?
DC LAHEY: I left. Went back to my car. I was... I was in shock. None of it made sense. Karl was missing. There was a dead woman in Luke Smith's house. I didn't know what to think.
DS STOUT: Did you encounter anyone while you were at Smith's property?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 5 seconds] Some neighbours had come out. There was chaos. Police were establishing a perimeter. I mostly just sat in my car.
DS STOUT: You're certain you didn't interact with anyone specifically?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 4 seconds] No one significant. Maybe some officers in passing when I went into the house, but no one I knew.
DS STOUT: What did you do after leaving Smith's property?
DC LAHEY: I went home. Finally followed Claiborne's order, just several hours too late. I spent the night trying Karl's phone, reviewing case files, trying to make sense of what happened.
DS STOUT: Sarah, I need to ask you directly. Do you have any knowledge of Detective Senior Constable Jenkins' whereabouts?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 3 seconds, emotional] No. I wish I did. I've been racking my brain, trying to think of anywhere he might have gone, anyone he might have contacted. But I have nothing. He's just... gone.
DS STOUT: Do you believe Luke Smith is responsible for his disappearance?
DC LAHEY: [pause] I think Smith is connected, yes. But how, or why, or what he's done... I don't know. The man's a ghost. Even when we have him cornered, he vanishes.
DS STOUT: Let's go back to Gladys Cramer. You're certain you haven't had any contact with her since the 2nd?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 6 seconds] I haven't sought her out, no. I have no idea where she is or how to reach her. Every time we encountered her during the investigation, it was because she approached us.
DS STOUT: If she contacted you now, would you report it immediately?
DC LAHEY: Of course. She might have information about Karl. She might know where Smith took him.
DS STOUT: You believe Smith "took" him somewhere?
DC LAHEY: [pause] I don't know what else to think. They were both in that shed, and then they weren't. Someone on a motorbike left the property. The only logical explanation is that Smith somehow forced Karl to leave with him.
DS STOUT: On a motorbike that left no exit tracks?
DC LAHEY: [pause, frustrated] I know how it sounds. I know it doesn't make sense. But I was there. I heard that engine. Karl disappeared. I don't have a better explanation.
DS STOUT: Is there anything else you think might be relevant? Anything you've remembered since yesterday that might help us find Detective Senior Constable Jenkins?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 7 seconds] Karl had been... different. In the days leading up to this. More withdrawn. Like something was weighing on him that he couldn't share. I asked him about it a few times, but he'd just say he was tired, that the case was getting to him.
DS STOUT: Did he seem afraid?
DC LAHEY: Not afraid, exactly. More... burdened. Like he was carrying something heavy. [pause] I should have pushed harder to find out what was wrong.
DS STOUT: You said earlier that Detective Senior Constable Jenkins had been under unusual stress. Can you elaborate on that?
DC LAHEY: [pause] The case was complicated. All the missing persons, the connections that didn't quite connect. Smith's constant evasion. It frustrated Karl. He takes this job seriously—takes the victims seriously. Not being able to give Jamie and Kain's families answers... it wore on him.
DS STOUT: Did his behaviour ever concern you from a professional standpoint?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 4 seconds] Karl's one of the best detectives I've worked with. His methods might be... intense sometimes, but he gets results. He cares about justice.
DS STOUT: That doesn't answer my question.
DC LAHEY: [pause, 6 seconds] No, his behaviour didn't concern me professionally. He was pursuing a difficult case with the dedication it deserved.
DS STOUT: Were you aware of Detective Senior Constable Jenkins having any personal issues? Financial problems, relationship troubles, anything that might be relevant?
DC LAHEY: Not that he shared with me. Karl's private about his personal life. We worked together, but he didn't talk much about things outside the job.
DS STOUT: You spent a significant amount of time together. Worked long hours on this case. He never mentioned anything?
DC LAHEY: [pause] We talked about the job. That was our relationship—professional. Whatever personal struggles he might have had, he kept to himself.
DS STOUT: I'm going to ask you again, and I need complete honesty. Was your relationship with Detective Senior Constable Jenkins purely professional?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 8 seconds] We were partners. We trusted each other. We spent a lot of time together. But our relationship was appropriate.
DS STOUT: Several colleagues have suggested you two were more than just partners.
DC LAHEY: [pause, emotional] People talk. People always talk. Karl and I had a strong working relationship. If people want to read more into that, I can't control their interpretations.
DS STOUT: I'm not trying to judge your personal life, Sarah. I'm trying to understand the full context of what happened. If there were emotional complications, that's relevant to the investigation.
DC LAHEY: [pause, 9 seconds] Karl means a lot to me. As a partner, as someone I respect. I care about what happens to him. Is that enough of a complication for you?
DS STOUT: [pause] Let's take a fifteen-minute break. I'll have someone bring you a coffee.
[INTERVIEW SUSPENDED: 15:52] [INTERVIEW RESUMED: 16:09]
DS STOUT: Okay, let's continue. Sarah, I want to go back to the day before the incident at Jeffries Manor. August 1st. Can you describe your activities that day?
DC LAHEY: [pause] As I mentioned earlier, that's when I responded to the break-in call at Luke Smith's property. First thing in the morning. Sergeant Claiborne sent me.
DS STOUT: Right. And after Claiborne dismissed you from the interview room and conducted the interview with Gladys Cramer himself, what did you do?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 4 seconds] Returned to my desk. Processed the initial arrest paperwork, though I knew it was likely pointless given Claiborne was handling the interview. Caught up on case files, followed up on some administrative tasks.
DS STOUT: Did you speak with Detective Senior Constable Jenkins that day?
DC LAHEY: [pause] Yes. We coordinated about next steps in the investigation. Discussed what we'd learned so far, where we should focus our efforts.
DS STOUT: Did anything unusual happen that day? Beyond the Gladys Cramer arrest?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 5 seconds] No. After the morning incident, it was routine work. Frustrating, like most days on this case.
DS STOUT: You and Detective Senior Constable Jenkins didn't have any disagreements that day?
DC LAHEY: [pause] We had professional debates about how to proceed. That's normal on an investigation. Different perspectives help.
DS STOUT: Were these debates heated?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 4 seconds] Sometimes. Karl can be stubborn. So can I. But we always worked it out.
DS STOUT: Did you work it out on August 1st?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 6 seconds, careful] Yes. We decided on our next steps and proceeded with the investigation.
DS STOUT: Where were you on the evening of August 1st?
DC LAHEY: Home. Reviewing case files, as I said.
DS STOUT: Were these debates heated?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 4 seconds] Sometimes. Karl can be stubborn. So can I. But we always worked it out.
DS STOUT: Did you work it out on August 1st?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 6 seconds, careful] Yes. We decided on our next steps and proceeded with the investigation.
DS STOUT: Where were you on the evening of August 1st?
DC LAHEY: Home. Reviewing case files, as I said.
DS STOUT: Alone?
DC LAHEY: Yes.
DS STOUT: Can anyone verify that?
DC LAHEY: [pause] No. I live alone. I didn't speak to anyone that evening.
DS STOUT: You didn't communicate with Detective Senior Constable Jenkins at all?
DC LAHEY: [pause] We might have exchanged a few texts about the case. I'd have to check my phone records.
DS STOUT: We'll be doing that as part of the investigation. Is there anything in those messages that might be problematic?
DC LAHEY: [pause, defensive] Problematic how? They're work communications.
DS STOUT: I'm just establishing the timeline, Sarah. I need to know everything about Detective Senior Constable Jenkins' movements and communications in the 48 hours before he disappeared.
DC LAHEY: [pause] The texts would have been routine. Updates on the case, maybe coordinating when to meet the next day.
DS STOUT: Do you still have access to Detective Senior Constable Jenkins' police vehicle?
DC LAHEY: No. Why would I?
DS STOUT: You rode together frequently. I'm asking if you had keys or access.
DC LAHEY: Only when we were working together. I don't have independent access to his vehicle.
DS STOUT: Has anyone asked you to remove or conceal any evidence related to this case?
DC LAHEY: [pause, firm] No. Absolutely not.
DS STOUT: If you became aware of evidence that might be problematic for Detective Senior Constable Jenkins' career, would you report it?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 7 seconds] That's a hypothetical I can't answer without context. What kind of evidence?
DS STOUT: Any evidence. Anything that might suggest improper conduct.
DC LAHEY: [pause, emotional] Karl is missing. If I knew anything that might help find him, I'd share it immediately. His safety matters more than anything else.
DS STOUT: That's not quite what I asked.
DC LAHEY: [pause, 5 seconds] I believe in doing the right thing. I believe in following procedure. But Karl's life is at stake. Finding him is the priority.
DS STOUT: Let me ask you something else. In your time working with Detective Senior Constable Jenkins, did you ever witness him using excessive force or violating protocol?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 6 seconds] Karl is professional. He does his job.
DS STOUT: That's not an answer.
DC LAHEY: [pause, careful] Every officer makes judgment calls in the field. Sometimes those calls are questioned later with the benefit of hindsight. But in the moment, you do what seems necessary.
DS STOUT: Are there specific incidents you're referring to?
DC LAHEY: [pause] No. I'm speaking generally about police work.
DS STOUT: Sarah, if there are things I should know—things that might help me understand what happened to Detective Senior Constable Jenkins—now is the time to share them.
DC LAHEY: [pause, 9 seconds, emotional] I've told you everything I know about Karl's disappearance. I don't know where he is. I don't know what happened in that shed. I wish I did. I wish I'd stayed with him instead of going inside the house. I replay that decision constantly. But I can't change it. All I can do is help you find him.
DS STOUT: [pause] Alright. Let me shift focus. Tell me about the body you found at Luke Smith's house.
DC LAHEY: [pause] I didn't find it. It was already discovered when I arrived. Officers were attempting aid.
DS STOUT: But you entered the house. You saw the deceased.
DC LAHEY: Yes. Briefly. She was clearly deceased. Gunshot wound to the chest, I think. There was a lot of blood.
DS STOUT: Did you recognise her?
DC LAHEY: No. I've never seen her before the 2nd.
DS STOUT: The initial investigation suggests Kate Gibbons may have been the person who called in the disturbance at Smith's property. Does that change your perspective on anything?
DC LAHEY: [pause, thinking] She called it in and then was shot? That's... [pause] That means she was there. Saw something. Maybe confronted Smith or whoever else was present.
DS STOUT: Does the name Kate Gibbons connect to any other aspect of your investigation?
DC LAHEY: [pause] Not that I'm aware of. I'd need to check our files, see if her name appears anywhere. But off the top of my head, no.
DS STOUT: We found something interesting at Smith's property. Evidence suggests there may have been other people present in the hours before Ms. Gibbons was shot. Does that surprise you?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 5 seconds] Smith's house has been central to this investigation. It wouldn't surprise me if multiple people had been there. Who did you identify?
DS STOUT: I'm asking the questions right now. Did you see anyone else at or near Smith's property when you were there?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 6 seconds] It was chaotic. Police, neighbours. I wasn't focused on identifying individuals.
DS STOUT: Think carefully. Anyone at all?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 8 seconds] I saw two women. From a distance. I couldn't identify them. They were leaving as I arrived.
DS STOUT: Why didn't you mention this earlier?
DC LAHEY: [pause] I didn't think it was relevant. They were just people in the area. Could have been neighbours.
DS STOUT: Can you describe them?
DC LAHEY: [pause] Not really. It was getting dark. They were too far away. I only noticed them for a moment.
DS STOUT: Did you take any photos?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 7 seconds] ...Yes. I took a photo. Force of habit. Document everything.
DS STOUT: And?
DC LAHEY: [pause] The photo wasn't clear. Too dark, too distant. I couldn't make out faces.
DS STOUT: Do you still have that photo?
DC LAHEY: [pause] It should be on my phone.
DS STOUT: I'd like to see it.
DC LAHEY: [pause, 4 seconds] Of course. [fumbling with phone] Here.
DS STOUT: [pause, examining photo] This is quite far away. But there are two figures visible. [pause] Sarah, have you enhanced this image at all?
DC LAHEY: [pause] I might have zoomed in. Tried to get a better look.
DS STOUT: And could you identify them after zooming in?
DC LAHEY: [pause, 9 seconds] It looked like... it might have been Jenny Triffett and Sharon Pafistis. But I can't be certain. The image quality isn't good enough.
DS STOUT: Jenny Triffett and Sharon Pafistis. Both connected to your investigation. And you didn't think this was worth mentioning?
DC LAHEY: [defensive] I wasn't certain it was them. I didn't want to make accusations based on a poor-quality photo. For all I know, it was just two women who looked similar.
DS STOUT: We'll need to examine your phone as part of the investigation. All photos, messages, call logs from the past week.
DC LAHEY: [pause, 5 seconds] That's fine. I have nothing to hide.
DS STOUT: We'll also need to check Detective Senior Constable Jenkins' phone records, vehicle GPS, any communications between you two.
DC LAHEY: Of course. Whatever helps find him.
DS STOUT: [pause] Sarah, I'm going to be direct. There are aspects of this case that don't add up. Detective Senior Constable Jenkins disappears under impossible circumstances. You disobey orders and appear at another scene just in time for a shooting. You photograph two people connected to your investigation but don't report it. Your explanations are... carefully worded. I need you to understand that this investigation is going to examine everything. Every decision, every action, every communication. If there's anything you're not telling me—anything at all—it will come out. And if it comes out later rather than now, that's going to raise very serious questions about your conduct.
DC LAHEY: [pause, 10 seconds, emotional] I understand. I'm not trying to hide anything. I'm exhausted. I'm traumatised. My partner is missing and I don't know if he's alive or dead. I've made mistakes—disobeying Claiborne's order, not immediately reporting the photo—but those mistakes came from shock and stress, not from trying to conceal anything. I want to find Karl. That's all I care about.
DS STOUT: [pause] Alright. I think that's enough for today. But Sarah, I need you to understand—this investigation is active and ongoing. You may be called back for additional interviews. You're not to discuss this case with anyone outside the investigation team. You're not to contact any potential witnesses or persons of interest. And if you remember anything else—anything at all—you contact me immediately. Understood?
DC LAHEY: Yes. Understood.
DS STOUT: You'll be on administrative leave pending the outcome of this investigation. Badge and service weapon, please.
DC LAHEY: [pause, 5 seconds] I'm being suspended?
DS STOUT: It's standard procedure when an officer is this closely involved in an active investigation. It's not punitive. It's protective—for you and for the integrity of the case.
DC LAHEY: [pause, emotional] Fine. [removing badge and weapon] Here.
DS STOUT: Thank you. Someone will be in touch about next steps. If you need support services—counselling, anything—let us know.
DC LAHEY: I'm fine.
DS STOUT: You're not fine, Sarah. No one in your position would be. Take the help if it's offered.
DC LAHEY: [pause] Okay.
DS STOUT: This interview is concluded at 16:47 hours.
[END RECORDING]
POST-INTERVIEW NOTES (DS STOUT):
DC Lahey's account requires significant follow-up. Key concerns:
- Delayed disclosure of photograph showing Triffett/Pafistis at Smith property
- Admission of disobeying direct orders
- Inconsistencies in timeline (what was she doing in the 15-20 minutes at Smith's property?)
- Carefully crafted responses regarding relationship with Jenkins
- Evasive answers about Jenkins' behaviour and professionalism
- No alibi for evening of August 1st
- Possible emotional/romantic involvement with missing officer
Priority actions:
- Forensic examination of DC Lahey's phone
- Pull all communications between Lahey/Jenkins past 30 days
- Interview Triffett and Pafistis immediately
- Review all case files for discrepancies
- Consider whether DC Lahey requires surveillance
- Assess whether her behaviour warrants formal investigation separate from Jenkins disappearance
DC Lahey is traumatised but also concealing something. Need to determine whether concealment is protecting Jenkins, protecting herself, or both.
